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Before I get into the meat of this post, just so no one thinks I'm exposing an author's unpublished story in an unfair manner, let me first state that I asked the author if it would be all right by her if I blogged about this.  She said fine.  I also offered to keep her name secret and to not disclose any specific details about the story.  She said don't worry about it.  Lastly, I offered to let read the post first, to make certain it met with her approval.  She told me to blog away.  So with all that stated, let me continue with what promises to be a lengthy post ...  
 

I was doing my slushing thing when I came across a story by tlmorganfield called "The Hearts of Men."  She's submitted to us before and I tend to enjoy her work, so I perked up a little as I opened her submission, thinking I might find a story to pass along to Shawna.  So I started reading it, and sure enough it grabbed my interest.  It was another one of her Aztec stories, and those tend to be interesting.  Anyway, as I'm reading I start scribbling some notes, because I get this inkling that I'm going to ask her for a rewrite.  Working with authors on rewrites takes time though, and since there's no guarantee Shawna will take the revised manuscript, I tend to be picky when it comes to making these requests.  But being as I'd requested a rewrite from TL once before and she responded really well, I had no problem requesting another one.

Then around halfway though the story I noticed a strange thing.  Certain elements of the tale were reminding me of "Feelings of the Flesh," a story of mine published in issue 212 of Interzone.  I thought I was being silly so I brushed the notion aside, but then a couple of other things popped up, enough that I knew it wasn't my imagination and I wasn't being vain.  Now I know TL a bit through ROF stuff and also the blogosphere, and a while back she'd actually read my story in IZ and was kind enough to send me a complimenary email about it.  So I knew she was familiar with "Feelings of the Flesh."

Now the first thought that might gallop through some people's heads is that she was copying me.  But I know TL well enough to know she'd never do this intentionally.  And while there are definite similiarities between the stories, the milieus, the themes, and the core concepts are quite different.  The similarities were in how some aspects of our plots unfolded, some of the action scenes, and some character traits of our protagonists.

Still, these similarities were there.  So part of me wondered if maybe some parts of my story had trickled into her subconscious.  Either way, I must confess that I found it awfully difficult to remain 100% objective when I was reading her story.  I've rejected friends and colleagues without blinking (including other submissions by TL), but this was reminding me of my story.  I love my story!  So I was debating over what to do, and finally I asked myself one key question: does the work stand on its own, enough to warrant a rewrite?

The answer was yes.  And much to my relief, the aspects of her story where I wanted a rewrite had nothing to do with any perceived similarities to my own tale.  Had I asked for changes regarding any of these tidbits, well, suffice it to say that neither the editor nor the writer in me would have been wholly comfortable with this.

So anyway, I contacted TL about a possible rewrite, and she was amenable to the idea.  And I was so curious I had to at least mention the similiarities I noticed between our stories.

Here's what she wrote back:  I was concerned about the similarities to FotF. I started writing this after reading The Dark Tower, and about halfway through the first draft, I read FotF and thought "Wow, this is kind of like the story I'm working on." I actually decided to trunk the story after that, since I'd been writing it with RoF in mind, but I guess it just wouldn't leave me alone. I did make a conscious effort to try to make it as different as possible though, so I'm glad it's different enough that the similarities didn't bother you too much.

This explanation made perfect sense to me.  I've yet to read any of Stephen King's Dark Tower books, but I remembered that when the artwork to my tale was posted on the IZ website (see the reduced version in the form of my LJ icon), someone commented that the artwork gave off a "Gunslinger-y vibe."  So I guess if TL can point to any influence for her tale, it would be Mr. King.  And this isn't to say she copied him either.  I may not have read the Dark Tower books, but I know enough about them to realize that any similarities between TL's work and King's is also just surface stuff.  As for me, as I mentioned to TL, if I were to point to any one figure as the inspiration behind my protagonist in "Feelings," it would be Robert E. Howard's Solomon Kane, who appeared in Weird Tales 50 years before the first Gunslinger tale appeared in The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction (and I'll add that the similarities between Solomon Kane and my protag were also just superficial, I think).  

Anyway, I'm happy to say that the rewrite went smoothly and I'll be passing TL's piece along to Shawna.  Dilemmas of objectivity aside, I'm quite certain that even if Shawna rejects this piece she won't be scratching her head, wondering what I was thinking when I passed this one along to her.  Still, I'm in no rush to find myself in this sort of situation again. 

And as to any similarities between the various works I've mentioned ...well hell, anyone that wishes to compare me to King is welcome to it!  But besides that,  I'm reminded of a book by Charles de Lint called TAPPING THE DREAM TREE.  It's not always about being derivative (though sometimes it is!).  Sometimes people are just tapping the same dreams in that tree.

Have any of you other editorial/writer types ever found yourself in this sort of situation?  I'd love to hear about it.   

Comments

[info]will_couvillier wrote:
May. 15th, 2008 05:48 pm (UTC)
I've been a voracious reader through most of my life. However, in the late '80s that shifted (with my first real relationship -- finding ladies sometimes changes a guy's focus) and it has never returned to that level. Now I am at an age where I require reading glasses, and that also slows the desire to read as much as I used to. So since that time, I haven't swamped my subconscious with new material to influence anything I write.

However, this doesn't mean it's forgotten the old stuff.

I am writing a story now meant for a contest. This contest's deadline is approaching, and I'm finding myself slowing nearly to a standstill with writing this tale. Why? I thought on this a bit, and then realized that it's because it becoming more familiar as I write it. Am I just regurgitating some older story I read back then? I really don't remember any specific story, but it's a weird feeling regardless.

I plan to complete it, but I also am concerned that maybe I'm copying someone I read who's work appeared pre 1989.

So, yea. Maybe this doesn't relate to the specific question, but it can be an example of influences.
[info]princessalethea wrote:
May. 15th, 2008 06:41 pm (UTC)
Wait...isn't that the story where you owe ME a frappucino for the copious use of my name? ;)
[info]douglascohen wrote:
May. 15th, 2008 10:46 pm (UTC)
Same story, but the character's name was spelled Olethia ...and don't YOU owe ME a drink for favors rendered? Man, that sounds racy out of context. ;)
[info]deltagrl wrote:
May. 15th, 2008 07:07 pm (UTC)
Hi, there. I was referred to this post because I was posting similar concerns about my own writing. Can I friend you? I like what you have to say.

And while I"ve never been in the editor position, I'm working on a story I"m so proud of right now, that I want to send out, and I keep feeling the tap of an imp on my shoulder whispering, "What if it's good because it's not yours?"

It's hard to push through, because like most writers, I want to know that what I'm writing is solely from my consciousness. I stopped reading for a while because I didn't want any outside influences. But, still, a world without reading might be worse than a world with a clear head.
[info]douglascohen wrote:
May. 15th, 2008 10:48 pm (UTC)
I'm glad you find my post interesting. There isn't much point in blogging otherwise. And please, feel free to friend me! Anyone who wishes to do so is welcome to it!
[info]albogdan wrote:
May. 15th, 2008 07:35 pm (UTC)
The mind is filled with our past. As avid readers, sometimes this past was experienced, but never lived, yet both fill the same pool. It's funny how it leaks back out sometimes.

In workshops I've read stories by people who've critiqued me in the past and noticed striking similarities to something I'd written. At first it annoyed me. Upon further reflection I'd realize how very minor those points were to the story as a whole, often just a few lines, but because they felt familiar the reaction was strong and left me with an awkward feeling. I never made an issue of it, but I did mentally react to it while reading.

This kind of thing certainly makes a writer uncomfortable on both sides. Two people once compared one of my stories to a particular story by Paolo Bacigalupi. They said it was a matter of them "feeling" similar, not "being" similar. I didn't like hearing this, especially since I had read the story many years ago. I actually had to go back and read the story again to make sure my subconscious hadn't messed with me. Luckily they were more different than the same, and any actual similarities were really very inconsequential. Luckily a sibling later said "ah, your story is like Highlander" when I described it (it's not) and I found myself laughing at how people can only relate to what they've known in the past.

Anyway, it's an interesting story. I've often wondered if it's better to not read while writing just in case of accidental influences. Maybe the only way to avoid it totally is to have the mind blanked... but that would certainly make a boring writer.

[info]douglascohen wrote:
May. 15th, 2008 10:49 pm (UTC)
Not read??? Take my eyes out now!
[info]catmagnet wrote:
May. 17th, 2008 03:20 am (UTC)
My editor vs. my writer
RE: not reading while writing

I've always admired people who could capture the "feel" of another writer well enough to do a pastiche, or finish someone else's novel (like when Jo Clayton died with her last two novels outlined but not written). But I could never do this, and I also don't think I could copy another person's story (or aspects of another story)--mostly because I don't remember how things work out well enough. Very occasionally a lousy memory is an asset, I guess!

I think if I didn't read while I was writing I'd go mad! I need a break from my universe. Most of my reading is research, of course, but I have to unwind with fiction reading. Why did I become a writer? Because I love reading so much!
[info]c1audine78 wrote:
May. 18th, 2008 12:55 am (UTC)
I'm so excited.

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[info]douglascohen
Douglas Cohen

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