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I wanted to make it a point to this get this post up ASAP, because on June 17th a new Ice and Fire story is being published in the Rogues anthology, and I want to be able to read it without this blog entry looming over me.  So let's jump right in since this promises to be a massive write-up (you were warned).  As always, don't read this until you're all caught on the books and the show.

All right, since there were no new locations on the map, as usual I'll start off by noting the introductions of new characters.  Well most notably, we met Lord Bloodraven/Bryden Rivers, more commonly known as the Three-Eyed Raven in the HBO series, or the Three-Eyed Crow in the books.  In the main series, we didn't meet this character until the fifth book, but we actually met him before this in the Dunk and Egg novellas that take place earlier in this world (you may recall the occasional mentions in the show of Ser Duncan the Tall--that would be Dunk).  In the novellas, he is a Targaryen bastard that rises to the position of Hand of the King before being shipped off to the Wall for reasons not yet revealed.  There he rose to Lord Commander of the Night's Watch before mysteriously becoming the Three-Eyed Crow.  Martin doesn't make this all clear in the main sequence of books, but those who have read the novellas as well are able to connect the dots.  There is even an indirect reference to this connection in last night's episode.  While speaking to Meera Reed, Bryden says " ...been watching you all your lives with a thousand eyes and one."  In the Dunk and Egg novellas, Bryden/Lord Bloodraven is known to have spies everywhere, and the saying goes, "How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have?  A thousand eyes, and one."  Of course, the original use of the "one" in that saying is a reference to the fact that Bloodraven only has one eye, the other having been lost in battle.  So already there is a deviation in this new version of the character, as he appeared to have two working eyes.

As to other new characters, we received a posthumous confirmation that the giant Grenn killed in the previous episode was indeed Mag the Mighty, the giant-king that Donal Noye killed in the third book in the same fashion while filling Grenn's role.  We also met the Children of the Forest for the first time.  Assuming it was the equivalent character from the books, the one helping Bran and company was/is named Leaf.  And while he is a minor character, we also met Ternesio Terys, captain of the Titan's Daughter, the ship that is bringing Arya to Braavos.

We also had a number of significant deaths this episode as well, including Tywin Lannister, Shae, and Jojen Reed (more about him later, oh yes).

All right, now that the preliminaries have been observed, let's dive into the details.  I'll start off with Jon Snow, and everyone else at the Wall.  So I had mentioned last time how he left Mormont's sword behind but didn't take another blade with him.  Well, this looms larger than ever in my eyes, because unless I missed it while I blinked, the wildlings never frisked Jon when he says he's there to negotiate with Mance Rayder.  Hell, Mance even turned his back on him, so it would have been rather easy for Jon to whip out a hidden blade and carry out his original mission.  It amazes me that such an obvious detail should be overlooked, but it wouldn't be the first time.
I won't belabor this point any further though, because there is too much else to cover at the Wall (let alone everywhere else).  So the arrival of Stannis and company is something that everyone familiar with the books expected, and while it worked wonderfully in the books, I have to say that in the show it fell a bit flat for me.  In the book, everything is building, building, building, because I (like most people I imagine) was furiously turning the pages.  In the show?  While I appreciated the ending to last week's episode with Jon going beyond the Wall, I feel like it robbed Stannis of his thunder by having him charge in at the beginning of the episode and save the day.  He also didn't give that awesome speech about coming to the Wall, because a true king must protect his realm.  Of course, in HBO's version he's going because Melisandre told him needs to, not because Stannis decided this on his own.  Both versions of Stannis are real hard asses, but the one in the book is way more nuanced.  HBO's version keeps getting robbed of his most compelling moments because he's more of a puppet.  But in the plus department, did anyone else notice how grey his hair was?  I went back to HBO OnDemand and checked last year's season finale, and it certainly didn't look as grey as it was this episode.  I'm 99% certain this was intentional.  More than once in the books, we're reminded as the story advances how Stannis is losing weight, has rings under his eyes, looks used up, etc.  So for his hair to suddenly appear more grey in the show fits with this idea.

Now with Stannis having already saved the day, we've been introduced to a few notable omissions from the third book.  In the book, when Stannis shows up, Mance's wife, Dalla, is going into labor.  Since we haven't seen her and I don't recall any mentions of her, it appears Dalla, their child, and Dalla's sister Val have all been written out of the show.  In both versions of the story, it has been established that king's blood helps Melisandre's spells.  So in book four, in order to protect the wildling prince, at the secret orders of Jon Snow, Gilly's babe gets swapped with the wildling prince before Sam, Gilly and company depart overseas. So all that appears to have been erased as well barring a sudden appearance of Mance's wife and son next season.

Another dangling thread is the Horn of Winter.  So far, there has been no mention of it.  We're told in the third book that it's in Mance's possession, and that if he sounds it, it will cause the Wall to fall, at least according to the old songs.  This is one of the aces up his sleeve that he wishes to threaten the Night's Watch with, but he actually doesn't want the Wall to fall, because then nothing is in place to stop the Others.  In book five, Melisandre destroys the horn, which fell into her possession following the route of the wildlings, but we later learn that horn was a fake.  This means the real Horn of Winter is still out there, and you have to assume that Martin intends to have someone blow it at some point (Tormund would be my guess, but that's just a guess) because the Wall needs to fall to unleash the Others.  It's certainly not too late to introduce the Horn of Winter in the HBO series, especially since the first one was a fake, but this is definitely on my radar.

Now while most of book three has been wrapped up with this season, there are still a few tidbits at the Wall that haven't happened yet.  One is Jon getting elected the new Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.  Samwell plays a role in that happening, not to mention the Old Bear's raven.  As the raven is not part of the show, however Jon wins the election won't be nearly as compelling, because the way the raven sways the election in Jon's favor is one of the truly brilliant-but-under-appreciated moments of plotting in the third book (not to mention the raven's rescue of Samwell Tarly earlier on).  Jon's has several competitors for the position in the book, most notably Janos Slynt.  In looking at how things have played out on the HBO series, I think I understand the direction things will be heading.  Neither Ser Alliser Thorne nor Janos Slynt were present for the Siege of Castle Black in the book, but both made their presence afterward.  Obviously things went down differently in the HBO series.  They paint Slynt as being subservient to Thorne, which is something of a reversal from the books.  But in the HBO series, Thorne was injured while fighting Tormund.  So I'm going to assume that due to his injury, Thorne is in no position to lead the Night's Watch at such a precarious time.  So he in turn will advocate for Slynt to be the leader.  And this is where Sam (and Gilly) come in, as they witnessed his cowardice during the battle, as he hid down in the food cellar.  So they can reveal this, and Samwell will influence the election in Jon's favor, just as he did in the book.
Another tidbit that we never got in the book was the character of Varamyr Sixskins, and Melisandre burning his eagle out of the skies when Stannis arrives.  I would say that Varamry has been written out of the show, only I came across an online report a few weeks ago about Varamyr being a character next season.  Assuming this is true, I have no idea what they now have in store for this character, but it's worth a mention since his arc is essentially over, except for the prologue in book five, which is dependent on events that have already been bypassed in the season finale.

The last tidbit from events up North that still haven't been touched upon is Stannis telling Jon that if he recognizes Stannis as king, he'll legitimize Jon and make Lord Stark of Winterfell, but Jon ends up refusing for a variety of reasons, even though he desires this.  They don't have to keep this in the HBO series, but it would be nice if they did.

We were also given a new scene with Jon burning Ygritte beyond the Wall.  Now in the books, this never happened, because Ygritte died with the raiding party that attacked before Mance's army arrived.  But since they revised the timeline regarding Ygritte's death in the HBO series, I have to say that under the circumstances this scene felt honest and true to the spirit of the books, and I rather enjoyed its inclusion.

The last bit I'll mention about events at the Wall before finally moving on is the significance of the last camera shots we're given here: Jon and Melisandre staring at each other while the flames burn between them.  I was already convinced that Jon Snow is Azor Ahai reborn, and this makes me more confident than ever about this being the case.  Melisandre's believes it's Stannis, and there is no reason to give us these camera shots unless the two of them will have an intertwining fate in the future.

OK, onto King's Landing, where we see Qyburn working on the Mountain.  Cersei gives him leave to do this in book four, though unless my memory is failing me Maester Pycelle was never present for these conversations, and we never actually saw Qyburn working on the Mountain, though I rather enjoyed the small tidbits they threw our way.  I've spoken to a number of people over the years who believe that the Mountain is dead from his wounds suffered against the Viper.  Folks, this isn't the case.  When we're told he's dead, it's to keep the Lannisters from having to deliver him to the Martells.  The skull they passed along to the Martells later on is a fake.  That's why it was picked clean of all the flesh--no identifying characteristics.  The Mountain is actually Ser Robert Strong in book five.  No, George hasn't outright told us this yet, but this is the case.  100% guaranteed.  George R. R. Martin never outright told us in the books that Loras and Renly were gay--he dropped subtle hints and let readers figure out for themselves if they could.  When they HBO series came out, they made the sexual preferences of these characters clear.  So I'll be curious if they make everything regarding the Mountain equally clear, or to put it another way, see if they forgo the usual notions of subtlety.

Another new wrinkle we got this episode was Cersei's threat to Tywin Lannister to reveal the truth about herself and Jaime.  First, in the books she never admitted to this incestuous affair, so by default she never threatened to spill the beans to put a halt to her arranged marriage to Loras Tyrell.  In the context of the show, I think this scene made perfect sense.  The camera pov allows them to dip into the perspective of Cersei long before it happens in book four, and even Tywin received some occasional pov, something that never happened in the books.  So they're able to go this route, and knowing Cersei, had Tyrion not killed Tywin, it wouldn't have surprised me at all if she did indeed make this threat to Tywin rather than let the marriage happen.  I also completely believed Tywin's ignorance to the affair--he made himself willfully blind to what was happening, something parents do with their children all the time.  I always assumed this was the case in the books as well.

As to Cersei getting together with Jaime afterward, I suppose it's good as depicting the sex as consensual for the arc of the characters, but next season they're going to need to get to work on making then drift apart, or it will create all sorts of ripple effects in the show.  More about this later, when I discuss Tyrion and Jaime's parting.

There isn't much to say about Dany's scenes either.  They were pretty much by the numbers, and I thought locking up the dragons was an excellent stopping point for the season, as it shows how much things have changed for her that she must chain up her children.

And now we come to Bran Stark.  For those who have read the books and have been following these weekly write-ups, I'd imagine that when Jojen Reed died--something that hasn't happened in the books (yet)--you figured I was infuriated by this seeming spoiler.  Actually, this wasn't the case at all.  If this seems like a complete contradiction that goes against everything I stand for regarding the source materials, don't worry.  I'll explain.  Basically, I've known that Jojen was going to die for years.  Not suspected, not pretty sure, not I'll be shocked if he doesn't.  I knew.  100%.  In the books, Jojen experiences the green dreams.  Each time he says that the green dreams never lie, his sister Meera becomes unreasonably upset.  However, we're never told why she becomes upset, so I was able to intuit the very obvious conclusion: revealing why she was upset would ruin the "surprise" of Jojen's death.  But all the seeds had been planted for Jojen to die.  It was just a matter of when.  Considering that Jojen had already filled the most important parts of his role--getting Bran to the Three-Eyed Raven and and being Bran's teacher until the the Three-Eyed Raven could take over--there wasn't much left for Jojen to do.  Now this isn't to say Jojen might not still do something important in the books, even though he's dead in the show.  If this is the case, they can have Meera do it in the show.  So again, nothing is being ruined for me in this respect either, because HBO loves to mix and match when it comes to the smaller things in their adaptations.  Finally, the scene in which HBO depicts him dying already happened in book five ...only Jojen didn't die in that scene.  So not only did Jojen's death fail to surprise me, but the real manner of his death hasn't been ruined for me either.

I guess I should also note that HBO has pulled the whole killing-characters-early act before, with Jeyne, Pyp, and Grenn, but Jojen is the most significant of the bunch in many respects, and his death happens near the end of the currently published source material.  So this one might be harder for some readers to digest.

But me?  I'm of the firm opinion that they haven't ruined a damn thing for me, because I was ahead of the curve on this one. There was never a shred of doubt in my mind that Jojen was going to die ...and if he happens to live in the books, hell, even better!  Basically I'm coming through this smelling like a Tyrell rose.  Now if you're a reader who didn't realize Jojen was going to die ...well, I totally understand why you're upset.  You just got spoiled.  You have my deepest sympathies.  If I didn't know Jojen was going to die anyway, believe you me when I say this post would have a drastically different tone to it.  If you're a reader who has been spoiled and have decided to stop watching before you get spoiled again, I can't blame you.  As to me?  I can go on a little longer, though I'll be taking some precautions next year.  But more on that later.

Now just because Jojen's death didn't bother me, it doesn't mean that there weren't other things in this scene to pick apart. Believe me, there were.  First the good.  That shot of the weirwood tree when the first reach it was easily some of the most gorgeous cinematography in the entire series, CGI or otherwise.  Now the bad.  In the books, it is wights that emerge from the snow and attack the group, not skeletons.  While the special effects on the skeletons were fine, watching that made me feel like I had wandered into a Dungeons & Dragons campaign.  By what metric of common sense or logic were these skeletons an upgrade on the wights?  It was plain silliness.  The child of the forest Leaf throwing around faux fireballs only added to this impression--magic is far more subtle and original in this world.  In the book she uses a torch to fight off the wights, not magic.  I'm disappointed that Benioff and Weiss opted for generic simplistic magic here as opposed to trusting the source material.

Of course, maybe they wouldn't have had to do this, if they used the obvious solution that all the book readers had in mind: Coldhands.  There is nothing wrong with having Leaf show up--she did so in the books.  But they could have had Coldhands show up as well.  Coldhands originally appears in book three and saves Samwell beyond the Wall before acting as a guide to bring Bran and company to the Three-Eyed Crow.  The HBO series is now into book five for Bran's story--and there isn't much of it in book five--and we still haven't met Coldhands.  I find this ...baffling.  It's not too late to introduce him, and I'm convinced he's rather essential in his own way, as I'm believe Coldhands is in fact Benjen Stark, someone that HBO did not write out of the series.  So if you had wights attacking instead of skeletons, you could have Coldhands coming to the rescue, and come to think of it, they could have saved Leaf for later.  HBO is all about adding extra battles, so they could have added one later on.  This means we wouldn't meet the Three-Eyed Crow yet, but we didn't have to.  They had reached the tree, and now they would have a guide beyond the Wall.  It would allow them to stretch out Bran's story more effectively until the next book comes out, but so it goes.  Now Sansa and Bran are almost out of published material to draw on in the HBO series.  Lastly, if Weiss and Benioff wanted to give us a little something extra in the magic department, I wish they would have invested those dollars into giving Leaf a glamour or something, because right now she pretty much just looked like a child playing dress-up.  They really needed to do more with her appearance.
All right, onto Arya.  As book readers know, that fight between the Hound and Brienne never happened (although it rocked). Brienne never even crossed paths with Arya, and when it happened, I basically rolled my eyes and and thought, Great, another coincident crossover that never happened in the books.  How many times are they going to pull this nonsense?  Still, it was an enjoyable scene.  Brienne's equivalent scene in the book took place when she killed Rorge and Biter, but those honors went to Arya and Sandor a few episodes back.  This begs the question of how Gendry will be reintroduced into the series, because he was the one who saved Brienne from Biter in the books, and I'm reasonably certain GRRM isn't done with his character arc (Arya reunion!  Arya reunion!)  The Hound's equivalent scene happened all the way back in the first episode, when he killed some of Gregor's soldiers and Arya reclaimed Needle.  On the bright side, as I predicted in my last entry, they took this opportunity to give Sandor that grievous leg wound.  I also found it interesting that Brienne ripped the stitches out in Sandor's neck by biting into him, because in her fight with Biter in book four, it was Biter chomping into Brienne's cheek twice and chewing off the flesh before Gendry came to the rescue.  Now the most interesting ripple effect of all these changes might be one we haven't seen yet.  In book four, Brienne visits the Quiet Isle.  While there, she is told by Elder Brother of the Quiet Isle that the Hound is dead, but Elder Brother is speaking in metaphorical terms, something that Brienne fails to understand.  This point is further illustrated when Brienne happens to notice a large and strong hooded brother with a bad limp ...there was also one more clue thrown out on the Quiet Isle that Sandor was alive and this was him: Elder Brother's dog goes over to the hooded brother and is very affectionate toward him.  Why is this significant?  Because a dog likes the Hound.  So now that Brienne and Sandor almost had it out in the HBO show, is she still going to almost run into Sandor on the Quiet Isle?  Will things play out differently if she goes there?  Time will tell, but this point was certainly worth bringing up.

Finally we have Tyrion, and there were some interesting choices here as well.  First, his parting with Jaime is on good terms, which wasn't the case in the book at all.  In the third book, after Jaime rescues Tyrion, he admits to Tyrion that Tyrion's first wife Tysha really was a crofter's daughter.  This was significant, because when Jaime and Tyrion rescued her all those years ago from brigands, this was the story they were told.  Later on, Jaime admits to Tyrion that she was actually a prostitute that he paid a bit of coin to so Tyrion could feel good about himself and have a nice first experience with a woman. Except Tyrion ends up marrying her, and when Tywin gets wind of this, he makes Tyrion watch while Tysha is paid like a prostitute in good Lannister coin and is screwed by soldier after soldier.  All this is material that was covered in the show's first season ...but the big twist in the third book is that it turns out Tysha really was a crofter's daughter, and Jaime hadn't arranged any of that.  Jaime fed Tyrion that whole story on the orders of his father, who wanted the marriage dissolved.  The knowledge that Tysha had genuine feelings for him and that Jaime was complicit in this lie enrages Tyrion.  He had originally forgiven his brother for saying she was a prostitute he paid to give him a bit of fun, because Jaime was the only who ever showed him a bit of kindness.  But the truth being hid all these years is something that Tyrion can't forgive.  This hurts, and it also hurts him in the book when Jaime asks if Tyrion killed Joffrey.  Tyrion is so hurt and offended at this point that he says he did, just to hurt Jaime back.  He also says to Jaime, "Cersei is a lying whore, she's been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and probably Moon Boy for all I know."  He says this to wound Jaime, and these words haunt him throughout the fourth book, playing a big role in creating a rift between Jaime and Cersei.  With the words never spoken, they'll have to find another way next season for Cersei's affair with Lancel to come to light (the other characters who have to date been written out of the show).  So with all this happening in the book right before they part, the farewell between these brothers is far more bitter.

In the book, this revelation from Jaime also compels Tyrion to confront Tywin Lannister, whereas in the show the motivation is to confront Tywin over sentencing him to death.  And when Tyrion finds Shae in his father's bed, this is perhaps the biggest and most telling deviation of all.  In the show, Shae tries to kill him before Tyrion is forced to kill her.  That never happens in the book.  Tyrion simply chokes her to death with the linked hands necklace belonging to the Hand of the King.

This choice by Weiss and Benioff actually demonstrates something very apparent with the character of Tyrion: they're not interested in making Tyrion a grey character.  Yes, he has a sharp tongue, yes, he drinks, and yes, he likes his prostitutes.  But none of this makes Tyrion a bad person to balance out the good in him.  In the book, Tyrion also has someone killed for showing too much interest in Shae, and he takes it upon himself to kill Shae without Shae trying to kill him first.  Sure, Tyrion still kills his father Tywin, but let's be honest, no one blames him for that under any circumstances.  In the books, we root for Tyrion despite him being a grey character.  In the show ...well, I wouldn't call Tyrion a saint by any means, but the show runners have gone to great pains to remove the worst parts of who Tyrion is.  It doesn't bother me--Tyrion is still a very interesting character, and Peter Dinklage does an amazing job, but this is still worth pointing out.

Varys leaving on the ship with Tyrion was also an interesting choice.  This didn't happen in the book, and the implication is that he's now on his way to Pentos with Tyrion, because this is where Tyrion will end up next season.  In the books, Varys just disappears without a trace between books three and four.  His whereabouts are a major mystery until the end of book five.  It's not out of the realm of possibility that he did at some point make his way to Pentos before returning to King's Landing at the end of book five, but this has yet to be confirmed.

So that covers the episode itself.  Other than the Jon and Samwell tidbits mentioned above, the only loose ends remaining from book three that haven't been adapted into the show yet are the death of Balon Greyjoy and the appearance of Lady Stoneheart.  I really don't know what they have up their sleeves regarding Balon, Asha, and the rest of the Greyjoys at this point.  They had to create a whole storyline for Asha out of thin air this season, and that was just one episode, and casting rumors regarding the Greyjoys have been decidedly mum to this point.  But given everything else they have on their plates with new characters for the coming season, it may be that the Victarrion, Euron, and Aeron (assuming he doesn't get written out of the show) may not come on the scene until season six.  Season five may have just one episode for the Greyjoys again (not including Theon), which will focus on the death of Balon.

As to Stoneheart ...everyone seemed convinced they would end the season with her death.  I never discounted this possibility and played with various possibilities, but if you've been reading through my entries and my comments in various discussions, I never committed to this idea either.  Sure, it would have been nice to end the season with this, but I thought Arya on the ship was a great ending.  If they want to save Stoneheart for next year, it doesn't hurt the show at all, especially since the amount of bombshells in books four and five aren't quite as numerous in the earlier books (although there are still some great things to work with).

And that's as far as I'm going to get with conjecture for the next season at this point.  But I do know this about next season as well: I dodged a bullet with Jojen Reed.  I could have easily been spoiled there, and I would have been royally pissed.  It's gotten to the point where I have to acknowledge that any given episode can drop a spoiler on me at any given time going forward.  This is entirely unacceptable.  So next season, I'll no longer be watching the premiere of each episode.  Instead, I'll wait until it's over, log into social media, and ask my friends if it's safe for me to watch the episode.  I'm done playing with fire here.  It's time to start taking some precautionary measures, and this is the most sensible way to start avoiding future spoilers.

So this wraps up another year of Game of Thrones write-ups, and what is easily the longest write-up I've ever done.  Thanks to everyone who has read along.  The response on here and Facebook is the best I've ever had, and it makes me want to keep doing these next year, even if these are bloody time-consuming.  It would feel strange not having Game of Thrones to look forward to each Sunday, but as I write this sentence I see that it's now 12:02 a.m., meaning the Rogues anthology is on sale, with a new Ice and Fire novelette.  So once this entry is done, the next order of business is purchasing that for my Kindle immediately, although I'll probably hold off on reading it until tomorrow.  I've spent enough time on Game of Thrones today with this write-up.

And after I read that (and maybe blog about it)?  My Game of Thrones fever will abate until October, when Martin's version of The Silmarillion is published for his continent of Westeros.  Even so, Sundays will be a little emptier without my weekly dose of Game of Thrones. The Leftovers premieres next Sunday on HBO, and I'll check that out, because it looks interesting ...but I have to say, is there a more apt title in the world for a new series premiering the week after the Game of Thrones season finale?  That's what it feels like I'll be watching with no Game of Thrones to focus on, leftovers.

Please excuse all the grammar errors, etc.  I'm just too brain dead after writing this to proof it.  Thanks for reading everyone!


matthewsrotundo wrote:
Jun. 17th, 2014 01:55 pm (UTC)
I really wish Coldhands had appeared. If he still has a part to play in the story, he can perhaps be introduced later--though I'm not sure how. Bran is in all likelihood never going to leave the tree (not in his own body, anyway), and Coldhands can't come in, so . . . *shrug* Anyway, I miss him.

As you know, I was completely convinced that Lady Stoneheart would appear at the end of this season. I think it would have made a tremendous cliffhanger. I don't think it will be as impactful to bring her in early next season. But I did like them finishing with Arya on her way to Braavos. That was nicely done.

I suppose they could make Stoneheart's appearance a cliffhanger for season five, by introducing her when she meets Brienne.

I think omitting the truth about Tysha was also a mistake. That was set up in season 1, and there will never be a better, more dramatic time to reveal it.

Having Brienne and Pod meet Arya and The Hound didn't strike me as too much of a coincidences. Brienne and Pod are on their way to The Eyrie, Arya and Sandor have just come from there. Not too difficult, then, to imagine them running into each other. I agree that the fight scene was epic.

Varys getting on the ship with Tyrion baffled me, as we know he has to be in King's Landing in order to have Kevan Lannister killed. But I'd forgotten that the ship was heading to Pentos. For Varys, then, this makes a lot of sense. He could use the trip to renew his ties with Illyrio; the two clearly need to rethink their plans now that so much has changed. That will give him something to do.

Just some random thoughts. Thanks for the write-ups, Doug!
akashiver wrote:
Jun. 17th, 2014 09:00 pm (UTC)
The problem with introducing Lady Stoneheart in the SO4 finale is that then they'd have to do something with her. You can't dangle something like that in front of a tv audience & expect them to remain patient for 20 more episodes. And unlike in the books, these characters are embodied by actors & actresses who need to get paid. You don't want their contribution to be a glare in 2 episodes.

(My 2c).
douglascohen wrote:
Jun. 17th, 2014 11:39 pm (UTC)
fixnwrtr wrote:
Jun. 19th, 2014 02:59 pm (UTC)
I had considered the possibility that Jon Snow was the real Azor Ahai, but then a bit about Melisandre not realizing that Azor Ahai could also be a woman popped up. Jon Snow is definitely a major player despite hints to the contrary. I believe Jon Snow is the son of Lyanna and Rheagar Targaryen, which makes him kin to Dany. Dany may be Azor Ahai and Jon will likely ride the other dragon with Bran guiding the 3rd dragon. Just speculation, but that's what writers do, speculate, even when it's on someone else's story.
douglascohen wrote:
Jun. 19th, 2014 03:47 pm (UTC)
I also think Lyanna and Rhaegar are Jon's parents ...if Jn isn't Azor Ahai I suppose it's Dany, but there were some big hints dropped in book five that left me convinced it's Jon. I've also speculated that Bran will ride the third dragon (via warging), but I've also heard a lot of people say it's going to be Tyrion. We shall see ...


Douglas Cohen

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